tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post113362184147999682..comments2023-10-24T03:44:58.589-05:00Comments on A Beginner's Mind: Faith Of The Founders: James MadisonSamurai Samhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13874504160316803215noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-38218430781988290022012-07-19T08:32:12.107-05:002012-07-19T08:32:12.107-05:00You couldn't be more wrong about prayer in sch...You couldn't be more wrong about prayer in school. Anyone is free to pray anywhere at any time to any god or gods they choose. The State may not officially promote religion or prayer. I have just as much freedom FROM religion being thrust upon me by governmentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-22000877267140532212011-12-06T08:23:54.938-06:002011-12-06T08:23:54.938-06:00The chap is absolutely just, and there is no quest...The chap is absolutely just, and there is no question.www.gerona-3d.comhttp://www.gerona-3d.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-85006319002029023322011-01-20T07:43:26.419-06:002011-01-20T07:43:26.419-06:00James Madison also attempted to give the central g...James Madison also attempted to give the central government more power than others in the Constitutional Convention believed was proper in suggesting that the new federal government be given the power to veto state legislation. This idea was defeated by a landslide, as it would have negated all the colonists had fought for against the British. States' rights were very much in accord with the founding fathers, with every attempt to limit the power of the central government except in certain cases delineated in the Constitution they created. The "general welfare" clause has wound up being a catch all for the central government to encroach more and more on the lives of citizens, unfortunately. <br /> Our founding fathers did not want a "godless" society and citizens. The First Amendment merely stated the restriction on the power of the federal government to establish a national religion, but it did not grant power to the same federal government to interfere in church-state relations decided on by the states. Thus, the issue of school prayer and whether to allow it should have never been an issue touched by the federal government, and Engel v. Vitale (1962) should never have happened. This supreme court decision resulted in banning prayer in all the public schools of this nation. This is directly prohibiting a community's free exercise of religious values, trampling upon the desires and values of the local citizenry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-60375433729963326052010-04-06T20:40:35.327-05:002010-04-06T20:40:35.327-05:00There were fifty-five individuals directly involve...There were fifty-five individuals directly involved in framing the Constitution ... an additional ninety in the first federal Congress that framed the First Amendment and Bill of Rights... The records of the Constitutional Convention demonstrate that James Madison was often out of step with these Founders. The other delegates rejected Madison's Virginia plan in preference for Roger Sherman's Connecticut plan and voted down 40 of Madison's 71 proposals (60 percent). Nevertheless, today Madison is cited as if he is the only authority among the Founding Fathers and the only expert on the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights.<br /><br />Was Madison responsible for the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights? Definitely not. In fact, during the Constitutional Convention, it was Virginian George Mason that advocated that a Bill of Rights be added to the Constitution, but the other Virginians at the Convention - including James Madison - opposed any Bill of Rights and their position prevailed. Consequently, George Mason, Elbridge Gerry, Edmund Randolph, and others at the Convention refused to sign the new Constitution because of their fear of insufficiently bridled federal power. Mason and the others returned to their home States to lobby against the ratification of the Constitution until a Bill of Rights was added. As a result of their voices (and numerous others who agreed with them), the ratification of the Constitution almost failed in Virginia, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and New York. Rhode Island flatly refused to ratify it, and North Carol. refused to do so until limitations were placed upon the federal government. Although the Constitution was eventually ratified, a clear message had been delivered: there was strong sentiment demanding the inclusion of a Bill of Rights.<br /><br />When the Constitution was considered for ratification, the reports from June 2 through June 25, 1788, make clear that in Virginia, Patrick Henry, George Mason, and Edmund Randolph led the fight for the Bill of Rights, again over James Madison's opposition. Henry's passionate speeches of June 5 and June 7 resulted in Virginia's motion that a Bill of Rights be added to the federal Constitution; and on June 25, the Virginia Convention selected George Mason to chair a committee to prepare a proposed Bill of Rights, with Patrick Henry and John Randolph as members. Mason incorporated Henry's arguments as the basis of Virginia's proposal on religious liberty.<br />Although Madison had opposed a Bill of Rights, he understood the grim political reality that without one, it was unlikely the new Constitution would receive widespread public acceptance. Consequently, he withdrew his opposition, and in the federal House of Representatives he introduced his own versions of the amendments offered by his State.<br />...The failure to rely on Founders other than Madison seems to imply that no other Founders were qualified to address First Amendment issues or that there exists no pertinent recorded statements from the other Founders. Both implications are wrong: numerous Founders played pivotal roles; and thousands of their writings do exist.<br /><br />However, if critics of public religious expression believe that only a Virginian may speak for the nation on the issue of religion (they usually cite either Madison or Jefferson), then why not George Mason, the "Father of the Bill of Rights"? Or Richard Henry Lee who not only framed Virginia's proposals but who also was a Member of the first federal Congress where he helped frame the Bill of Rights? Or why not George Washington? Perhaps the reason that these other Virginians are ignored (as are most of the other Framers) is because both their words and actions unequivocally contradict the image portrayed by the one-sided picture of Madison given by those who cite only his "Detached Memoranda."<br /> from "James Madison and Religion in Public" David Barton - 09/2002Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-38602734303253388472009-10-12T08:17:37.070-05:002009-10-12T08:17:37.070-05:00I forgot to add to the above comment that James Ma...I forgot to add to the above comment that James Madison said, "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-35339459519312251302009-10-12T07:34:11.191-05:002009-10-12T07:34:11.191-05:00I believe that the founding fathers wanted the chu...I believe that the founding fathers wanted the church and state to be institutionally separate. They didn't want what they had in Europe where they were persecuted for not being e.g. Anglican or Catholic. They wanted every American to be free to there own religious beliefs. If this is not true, why on earth did Benjamin Franklin call for prayer during the constitutional convention and why did Washington, the chairman of the convention, agree to it? Franklin said "I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15027074.post-30161074944619074242008-10-09T19:13:00.000-05:002008-10-09T19:13:00.000-05:00i think that America was built on Biblical princip...i think that America was built on <BR/>Biblical principles. and that our founding fathers never meant for our nation to ever be anything but that.KarissaJoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609894785810360285noreply@blogger.com